Katie Drummond: I have to shop at a specialty hat store. Because my head actually doesn’t … I can’t wear—
Lauren Goode: What is this store called?
Katie Drummond: I can’t wear normal hats.
Lauren Goode: Is it called Bobblehats?
Katie Drummond: No, I’m going to look it up. It’s from Oddjob Hats. The last hat I bought was called Big Running Hat. Just Big Running Hats.
Lauren Goode: Do you also have one called Big Walking Hats?
Katie Drummond: Probably. Probably.
Lauren Goode: Oh.
Michael Calore: Oh, it’s too much.
Lauren Goode: All right.
Michael Calore: Should we get into it?
Katie Drummond: Let’s do it.
Lauren Goode: Let’s do it.
Michael Calore: This is WIRED’s Uncanny Valley, a show about the people, power, and influence of Silicon Valley. Today we’re going to be talking about the Trump administration’s policies around immigration and the effect that those policies are poised to have on the tech industry. Since day one of the current administration, immigration policy has been overhauled, the asylum process was virtually shut down, the obscure Aliens Enemy Act was invoked to deport hundreds of people, and birthright citizenship is being challenged in the US Supreme Court. Visas have been under increased scrutiny. WIRED recently reported how the H-1B visa application process is becoming more hostile, and last week the administration said it would begin revoking the student visas of some Chinese students who are currently studying at US schools. So today we’re going to dive into the impacts that these changes could have on the tech industry from the talent pipeline to future innovations. I’m Michael Calore, director of consumer tech and culture here at WIRED.
Lauren Goode: I’m Lauren Goode. I’m a senior correspondent at WIRED.
Katie Drummond: And I’m Katie Drummond, WIRED’s global editorial director.
Michael Calore: I want to start us off by focusing on how the Trump administration has been handling student visas. Just last week, Secretary of State Marco Rubio announced that the administration would start to, “aggressively” revoke visas for Chinese students. The State Department said it would focus on students from critical fields and those with ties to the Chinese Communist Party, but also that it would just generally enhance the scrutiny across the board. The vagueness of these guidelines has sent students, parents, and universities into an emotional tailspin. What do we make of these latest developments?
Lauren Goode: So there were actually two directives that went out last week, and I’m sure we’re going to hear more, but I think they’re both worth noting. The first was that a directive was sent to US embassies around the world telling them to pause any new interviews for student and visitor visas, and that included the F, M and J visas, until further notice. And this whole idea was that it was in preparation for an expansion of social media screening and vetting. So basically the State Department is going to be looking much more closely at students’ online activity, social media activity, and consider that as a part of their interview process when they’re applying for a visa to the US. That was already a part of the application process, but now it’s just going to be expanded. We don’t really know what that means. The other was the revoking of visas for Chinese students as you mentioned, Mike. And really I think what this does is it adds another tool to this current Cold War of sorts that we’re having with China, whether it’s with the tariffs or whether it’s measures like these, it’s clear that the current administration wants to have the upper hand. And what we’ve reported at WIRED is that if this continues and the courts allow it, this would all have a significant effect on higher education, because roughly a quarter of the international student population in the US is from China. And also, this is something I think a lot of people don’t realize, I personally didn’t realize until I started doing more research into this, international students often pay full tuition or close to it when they come here into the United States for school, which makes it an economic lifeline for a lot of these universities and also in some ways helps offset the costs for domestic students, US students who are getting scholarships or getting partial reduction in tuition and that sort of thing. I do think in general it’s dangerous territory to start targeting students under a specific nationality for these alleged national security reasons. There are going to be questions about how effective it is long-term, but also how this could potentially weaken the US technology sector in the long term.
